The Legal Pad Podcast Audit

Dave Jackson [00:00:00]:
In this episode, Stacy Bratcher takes her podcast, the legal department, and gets into the hot seat.

Dave Jackson [00:00:39]:
Alright. So today, we're checking out the legal department by Stacy Bracher. You can find her at legaldepartmentpod.com. And her description from our good friends in Apple Podcast, are you comfortable? You should get comfortable. Alright. Here we go. Practical, efficient, and fun, the legal department podcast delivers the bottom line of what busy in house attorneys need to know to level up their career. Whether you're the general counsel or just starting a career in corporate law department in a corporate law department, the legal department podcast is the place to get real world advice from leading legal executives, executive coaches, and other thought leaders on how to grow your careers and deliver more value to your clients.

Dave Jackson [00:01:28]:
Now at that point, okay, I think I know what the show is about. But wait, there's more. Through conversations with prominent general counsel, chief legal officers, and select the law firm thought leaders, you'll get the bottom line of what you need to know about front page legal issues like digital privacy, cybersecurity, and AI. Guests will share their strategies for managing the legal team, budgets, and navigating tricky company politics. Episodes will also tackle in house fundamentals like the attorney client privilege, litigation, m and a, governance, and working with board of directors and the c suite. Like, okay. I now have a much clearer oh, but wait. There's more.

Dave Jackson [00:02:13]:
The podcast will also also feature guests from the c suite. I think you just said that when you said with board of directors in the c suite. But, nonetheless, in case you missed it, the podcast will also feature guests from the c suite, didn't we just say sweet? Okay. Executive coaches and other thought leaders who will offer practice insights for attorneys seeking to fuel their own professional development and build those elusive soft skills. Each episode of the legal department will provide practical tips and takeaways that you can use to take your in house career to the next level. And where I'm kind of going with this now because, you know, wait, there's more. Some of these just seem like they're just it's like you threw it in chat gbt and said, rewrite this paragraph. Alright? So, we've we've talked about, you know, taking it to your the next level.

Dave Jackson [00:03:09]:
The next paragraph, the legal department podcast provides practical, concise, and actionable insights for a busy in house attorneys. Whether you are a seasoned general counsel or a new corporate law professional, each episode of the law department offers the essential tools, information, and resources to enhance your professional skills, elevate your career, and deliver value to those who serve. I'm here to tell you, I feel like I've already read that paragraph. But somebody read, you get 4,000 characters for your podcast, and they're gonna use all 4,000. Next paragraph, each episode features in-depth conversations with prominent general counsel and chief legal officers and select law firm leaders who share war stories from their own careers. Learn how to tackle any situation with finesse and confidence No matter how delicate or politically challenging, accelerate your journey towards a fulfilling legal career with these podcast conversations. Again, did that say anything different than the previous? Because wait. There's another one.

Dave Jackson [00:04:18]:
Guests will share key insights. I think we've definitely got it down that we're gonna get key insights and strategies for effective managing legal teams, budget oversight. See, these are just keywords. We're just keyword stuffing. Navigating company politics and mastering in house fundamentals like privilege, litigation, m and a. We've already said m and a. That was like 2 paragraphs ago. Governance and board interactions.

Dave Jackson [00:04:44]:
Becoming an in house leader requires more than legal knowledge and experience. It requires business acumen, executive intelligence, and being a team player with your company and with your partners. The legal department podcast will help you level up your career. Again, key strategies okay. I'm just alright. Literally, there are 2 more paragraphs. Here, host Stacy Bratcher, a general counsel and chief legal officer with 20 years of in house experience, finally, some new information, has fun and engaging con conversations with legal careers I'm sorry, about legal careers within in house legal departments. The legal department podcast delivers, here we go again, informative, relatable, and practical advice from thought leaders as she explores topics with exceptional attorneys.

Dave Jackson [00:05:38]:
And, again, in case you missed it the first two times, c suite executives and other key business partners, I think that's 2 for business partners, you'll gain a deeper understanding of front page legal issues, become more familiar with the impact of today's technology on your practice, and learn to cultivate a stronger relationship to position yourself as an approachable and effective legal partner. Okay. So I would keep the part about Stacy 20 years, but some of these we got one more. You ready? Let's let's figure out what new information we're gonna learn that required them to include this paragraph. No matter where you are in your career, the legal department is here to help you tackle whatever comes your way. Join Stacy in these episodes filled with inspiring stories, already said that, valuable advice, yep, definitely said that, and tips to evaluate your link your legal practice. Become an invaluable asset to your organization or law firm and establish yourself as a dependable, professional. They can can they can't afford to lose.

Dave Jackson [00:06:41]:
Level up your legal career with the legal department podcast. So I get that you're hoping that putting all these words are gonna get you found. Maybe they will. I'm just I would have moved paragraph, 5 about Stacy into maybe the first paragraph. But the the other, like, 1, 2, however many paragraphs we have here, they're saying the same thing. So I would get Stacy's bio in there sooner. So with that said, let's get to it. Her she's got some decent if we look at her titles, things like level up and hold on, leading the legal department of a start up, level up your negotiation skills, what's next to career transitions in the legal department, c suite series, how to move from the legal department into something that I can't see because your title's too long.

Dave Jackson [00:07:38]:
So let's get to my conversation with Stacy because as much as I just kind of, was confused by her intro, the beginning of her show was great. Here's myself with Stacy listening to the beginning of her show.

Stacy Bratcher [00:08:13]:
Welcome to the legal department, a podcast for lawyers who wanna learn, connect, and grow their careers. I'm Stacey Bratcher. I'm a general counsel, and I'm excited to share these conversations to help you level up in house. On today's episode of the legal department, I'm thrilled to introduce Laura Frederick, who is the founder and CEO of How TO Contract, which is an organization that helps support lawyers and others in their contracting journey. Hi, Laura. How are you?

Laura Fredrick [00:08:46]:
I'm awesome. How are you doing?

Stacy Bratcher [00:08:48]:
I'm doing great. I'm doing great. You know, you got on my radar screen because you are a really prolific poster. We're gonna get into that on LinkedIn a little bit later. But you have developed this really strong niche in the contracting space. As you know, from a as a former in house attorney, it's a core function of the in house practice. So I wanna talk about that. But it's not career journey show, but I do wanna give a little bit of background because you've been there, done that in the in house world.

Stacy Bratcher [00:09:16]:
So can you just talk a little bit about your in house experience?

Dave Jackson [00:09:19]:
So here's what's all there's so much that's, like, great about that. Number 1, I love the fact that you go, this isn't a journey show because we've all, like, today

Stacy Bratcher [00:09:28]:
I'm over it.

Dave Jackson [00:09:29]:
We're gonna hear somebody's story. You're gonna hear about somebody you don't know and how they, you know so that, I like that you're you talked specifically of what we're gonna get to. You were kinda leaving little hints along the way to tease people. And then you didn't say, tell me a little bit about yourself. You said, tell me about your specific part of your life. And I was like, perfect. The only thing for me that I go, and sometimes we don't have a lot of control, is you sound phenomenal. She's compared to you, she's a little harsh in the words of Bill Murray.

Dave Jackson [00:10:02]:
Like, was she using, like, a headset? Do you remember or anything like that?

Stacy Bratcher [00:10:04]:
She had a headset. I do. I send out guest FAQs with all the

Dave Jackson [00:10:08]:
Yeah.

Stacy Bratcher [00:10:09]:
Wear headphones, don't use your earbuds, you know, all the all the things. But she did have headset, and she did have a real mic.

Dave Jackson [00:10:17]:
Okay. Because it was it's just super clear. Like, you're super warm and just like, and then she comes on and it's like and that was like the first impression. I was like, ew. Now on the other hand, what was it? 4 kids in 5 years? No twins? I was like, holy cow. So and I just thought it was cool that you said, hey. You you know, you kinda threw out that subtle hint. Don't tell me your life story, and you gotta write into a story as opposed to tell me a little bit about yourself.

Dave Jackson [00:10:45]:
So the only other thing was the the benefit of listening was you're gonna level up. Mhmm. And I was like, does that make sense in lawyer speak? Because to me, it's like taking your, like, taking whatever to the next level is always Mhmm. Going deeper and deeper. So, I was like, okay. That's somewhat vague, but not really. I mean, it's a quick way of

Stacy Bratcher [00:11:06]:
saying It's a professional development show for lawyers. So the goal is that you're gonna learn something. And as opposed to again, I we're over a career journey. I don't really care about all the jobs you had and why you went to law school. Right. I try to have it focused on a particular topic, and I really try to have, like, concrete takeaways that people can say, like, oh, I learned this.

Dave Jackson [00:11:29]:
Well, that's it. That's the thing I thought you did really well. And in fact, in my next little clip here, you you anytime somebody drops something, you're like, hold on. Let's talk about that.

Laura Fredrick [00:11:40]:
And a lot of times, you're accepting terrible language because you don't have a choice, and you gotta get the deal done. And the risk of not doing the deal is worse than the risk of accepting this language. So it's kinda nice because when something blows up later, you're like, Yeah.

Stacy Bratcher [00:11:53]:
We do what

Laura Fredrick [00:11:54]:
we do. Best. Exactly.

Stacy Bratcher [00:11:55]:
So that's

Dave Jackson [00:11:56]:
So I like that just before we get to it. Is your your audience, if they're in your shoes, are going, oh, been there, done that, horrible language.

Stacy Bratcher [00:12:05]:
Let's pause on this as a teaching point because, you know, I think, especially for lawyers who are new to an in house role,

Dave Jackson [00:12:12]:
I I love that because you're kind of, like, identifying, hey, this is who this is for, and there's somebody in their car going, that's me.

Stacy Bratcher [00:12:19]:
I had this shared this example recently, but I remember one of my first projects when I was at USC. Someone gave me a contract for one of the schools, and it was really a deep and I'm just doing my law firm thing, marking it all up. And when I send it back to the client, like, oh, hey, their mouth dropped. What am I supposed to do with this? And so I'm hoping we can talk about what are some tips and coaching for people moving in house about how to risk stratify or why you pick your battles, and why you do suck it up with bad language sometimes.

Dave Jackson [00:12:50]:
And so I just it's a very specific question. It's not because first you said, give us some tips. And then you're like, wait, hold on. Let's let's reel it in even more. So you you just asked a lot of really good questions. I mean, I Thank you. I could keep playing clips and clips, but everything was like, oh, there was one. I gotta play this one because it's it's a way without really you're vulnerable without, like, being super vulnerable.

Stacy Bratcher [00:13:16]:
When we were talking before, I shared, I am not always the most enthusiastic passion for it. And I guess I want a little bit of coaching on how can passion for it. And I guess I want a little bit of coaching on how can I get myself pumped up? Like, this is a part key part of the business, but it's not as fun as sexy as maybe some of the other things we work on.

Dave Jackson [00:13:39]:
And so to me, if you're feeling that, you know, there's somebody else that's like, oh, if I have to do another hotel contract Yeah. Right. Right. I'm gonna, you know, pull my eyes out. I thought this was a great idea where you just bring in, like, let's quit talking about theory, and you made it, like, let's talk real world.

Stacy Bratcher [00:13:57]:
There's more I wanna go into there. But one question that's been on my mind, and you kinda mentioned earlier that, you know, you hired a legal operations person. Because I think one of the reasons I feel dispassionate about contracts is because there's such a volume. Yeah. And it can be overwhelming. Like, when you're talking about, like, being side to side with the business and strategizing and growing and growing. And so as much growing and growing. And so as much as I wanna spend time with Julie, plan to take over the world, I still have, like, 15 other people that want something.

Stacy Bratcher [00:14:32]:
So Yeah. You have suggestions for, like, managing that immense need, the inbounds, I call it.

Dave Jackson [00:14:40]:
So here again, you're just bringing in the real life stuff that somebody listening on a plane on their way to their next meeting or whatever is like, oh, I've been right there. I know exactly. I I love how you called it. You're dispassionate about it. I was like, oh, that's a good word of saying it bores me to death. I don't wanna do anymore. And then as a teacher, one of the things you always wanna answer is is why. Because people like, if you tell a kid, 1 +1 equals 2, and they're like, okay.

Dave Jackson [00:15:08]:
You say that to an adult, and they're like, wait. Can you explain that a little more? And I thought this was a great just great insight.

Laura Fredrick [00:15:15]:
Because I post it every day.

Stacy Bratcher [00:15:16]:
Let's pause for a second. You had a post recently, and I know you've been continuing to post. But I think it was a couple months ago, you said I posted every day for it was like three and a half years and it was like 1300 some odd LinkedIn posts. Did you enjoy doing that, or did you feel, like, compulsive to do it? Or, like, I'm trying to explore my business? Or, like Yeah. That's a lot.

Dave Jackson [00:15:40]:
Yeah. So because when I heard that, I was like, so you are. You're basically asking, why are you doing this?

Stacy Bratcher [00:15:46]:
Yeah. Crazy lady.

Dave Jackson [00:15:47]:
The other thing I thought was you you got her answer. And then before you got off that topic, you made sure to ring out every ounce of of value.

Stacy Bratcher [00:15:56]:
Actually, if anyone's listening, I'm looking for someone to help me with my LinkedIn. And maybe, Laura, you can coach me through it. But I was curious, like, what did you learn when you were doing all these posts? So you learned, hey, I can repurpose my content. It's a great pipeline for both relationships, friends, and for business. But what else did you learn about yourself or the business of LinkedIn?

Dave Jackson [00:16:19]:
And there's a couple things you did here throughout the interview that I was like, there you go. You might as well do that. And that is if you have an expert on your show, like, can I just get some free consulting?

Stacy Bratcher [00:16:29]:
Yeah. You know? And Yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:16:31]:
I've done that. Why not? Because, again, if you're thinking it, so is your audience. There was only and I mean, I have to really pull out the tweezers to nitpick. And but it's so honest and natural that I'm like, you know, not a big deal. You just said this.

Stacy Bratcher [00:16:46]:
Yeah. Well, that's great. And like I said, there's webinars, so follow you on LinkedIn. I think don't you also have, like, membership or something?

Laura Fredrick [00:16:53]:
Yeah. We have a membership with over 80 hours worth of training in there.

Dave Jackson [00:16:57]:
So somebody could say, ah, you sounded slightly unprepared. And I'm like, she you know?

Stacy Bratcher [00:17:03]:
It's it's crazy how much these people don't aren't ready to sell themselves. And I tell them at the outset, like, hey. What do you and the other thing, which I'm sure you experience, is that you have them on the show, and then they don't promote it.

Dave Jackson [00:17:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. It's either one extreme or the other. They're they're either the well, as I mentioned in my book, you know, they start every answer like that. Or you're like, hey. I'm gonna serve up the softball for you so you can explain to people what you do. And yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:17:32]:
So Yeah. And then the last thing we have is your ending.

Stacy Bratcher [00:17:38]:
Hey. Thanks for joining me today in the legal department. If you like the show, would you please follow, like, and subscribe? That helps other listeners to find the show.

Dave Jackson [00:17:47]:
Okay. Is that are you doing this on YouTube as well?

Stacy Bratcher [00:17:50]:
No.

Dave Jackson [00:17:53]:
Uh-uh. Subscribing to the show subscribing to the show does, I think. Let me finish.

Stacy Bratcher [00:17:58]:
And if you're really inspired, you can rate and review on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you get podcasts. For more information about the show, check out our website, legaldepartmentpod.com. Thanks.

Dave Jackson [00:18:11]:
Okay. So what I'm I'm tying things together here that aren't actually there. As long as you know ratings and reviews do not help you get found. Subscribing does, but not ratings and review. The one thing that I would throw in there, although this is sounds this sounds like it's already done and prerecorded, always tell people, hey, do you know somebody else who just hates hotel contracts?

Stacy Bratcher [00:18:35]:
Mhmm.

Dave Jackson [00:18:36]:
Why don't you share this with them? Because we you know, and also, always say if you do an interview because the the goal of this show is to position yourself as a as a thought leader. And we got some really great questions, but not a lot of thought. So I always say, are are you young enough to remember or I guess, old enough at this point to remember Jerry Springer?

Stacy Bratcher [00:18:57]:
Mhmm.

Dave Jackson [00:18:58]:
Yeah. I always say do the Jerry Springer. Because, you know, Jerry have people throwing chairs and Yeah. You know, that whole 9 yards. And at the end, he'd sit down with a camera and go, what did we learn today? And so this is where you get to inject your thoughts

Stacy Bratcher [00:19:11]:
Mhmm.

Dave Jackson [00:19:11]:
And say, you know, what really jumped out today is when she said this, I Mhmm. You know, I we've all been there. And then you can share a story about how you do something or insights or how you're gonna use that something. Because it's it's one of those things where you you just delivered value. But sometimes you wanna remind people that you just got a lot of really free, you know, context.

Stacy Bratcher [00:19:36]:
Just free stuff. Yeah. Just

Dave Jackson [00:19:37]:
free stuff. And I'm responsible for bringing you this awesome guest kind of thing. It's a it's a really kind of passive aggressive way to just remind people that, like, it's my show. Right? It's like, and it's one of the things that it it does. It helps reinforce in people's brain. They're like, oh, yeah. I did just learn that. It was 12 minutes ago, but that's a good point.

Dave Jackson [00:19:58]:
I was already focusing on the last thing. So I would do a Jerry Springer in there and then just ask people to share it with their friends because I would assume lawyers hang out together because nobody else can identify what it's like to be a lawyer except, you know, another lawyer. You know, you're trying to get into other lawyers talking to other lawyers about your show. And then you've got easy to remember website, which is great. The only thing I saw on your there are 2 things on your your website.

Stacy Bratcher [00:20:27]:
The website's terrible.

Dave Jackson [00:20:28]:
It's terrible.

Stacy Bratcher [00:20:28]:
I hate it. Okay. I hate it. I'm embarrassed of it. It was a I had to do it. Tom's people built it for me, and then I haven't had success getting it redone.

Dave Jackson [00:20:41]:
Well, you you might look into and and people always go, you should work for these people. I am an affiliate. There's a company called, PodPage that I use. And you simply put in your RSS feed because there's there's one thing that, we need to do here. So let me share my screen here real quick. Hey. This is future Dave. I now work for PodPage, and we'll hear my tips for her website right after this.

Dave Jackson [00:21:10]:
So Stacy had made one of the most common website mistakes and that is you have these players. Some people call them set it and forget it. I call it a show player. It's a player with multiple episodes. And the bad news about these players, yes, they're convenient, but they deliver 0 as in absolutely zero SEO to your website. They're really not even on your website. It's like somebody punched a hole in your website and stuck a player in it, and that information is actually on your media host. So there was no SEO.

Stacy Bratcher [00:21:44]:
Do you know about the blogs, though? Tom's company

Dave Jackson [00:21:47]:
And to fill in the blank here, Tom's company is Podetize.

Stacy Bratcher [00:21:51]:
Turns each episode into a blog.

Dave Jackson [00:21:54]:
Okay. But where is that?

Stacy Bratcher [00:21:56]:
We should not spend a lot of time on the website because I know it's I know it's horrendous, but they are posted on they are here. And that was like the main not the main reason I went with them, but that was something that they really promoted was because they turn the podcast into blog that that op I've got pretty good Yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:22:17]:
Okay. SEO. Because that's what you wanna do. You wanna treat every episode like a blog post just with a single episode player, not, you know, here's all Mhmm. Kind of thing. And then the other one that just looks odd is you have a supporters page, and there's there's nothing here.

Stacy Bratcher [00:22:33]:
Well, that would be because, they didn't put put I do have 2 supporters, working on the 3rd, but the web team did not execute that.

Dave Jackson [00:22:43]:
And then the other thing I would do just because the goal is to to get listeners is when you go to the podcast page, you have, and you kinda have to you'll see here rate and review, but we're kinda looking for follow-up as well. And so when you well, a, that that link doesn't work.

Stacy Bratcher [00:23:04]:
Let me ask this. If I migrate to pod page, can this just go over on its own, or do I have to do anything out? I mean

Dave Jackson [00:23:11]:
It's you basically take your RSS feed. So that would be from and Poditize, right, is the name of the company. Yeah. You take their RSS feed, throw it into PodPage. You pick a layout and

Stacy Bratcher [00:23:25]:
you Do I get to keep the same URL?

Dave Jackson [00:23:27]:
Yep. And then you basically just redirect it. I mean, here's, this is a pod page site. So I've got my little Patreon thing. You can customize it if you don't just want the, here's one I did for my consulting. Because for me, you have to ask yourself, am I a business that has a podcast or a podcast that has a business?

Stacy Bratcher [00:23:47]:
I'm I'm neither. I'm just a so I'm I'm I have a job. Right? This is just like a a fun Yeah. And if you don't mind, we can we don't I don't need to we the the website is terrible, and I know it. Okay. Okay. But I I think about you say all the time that you can get paid in fun. Right? Like, I'm I'm an executive.

Stacy Bratcher [00:24:07]:
I don't need money. Like, I I I'm not doing this to make money. I'm doing this to to promote my thought leadership, and I'm doing it as a service to others in my field and because it's really fun. So

Dave Jackson [00:24:20]:
Perfect.

Stacy Bratcher [00:24:22]:
I hope that that comes through. It's in

Dave Jackson [00:24:25]:
shape. It is. I think it is because your again, your questions are, a, they sound very natural, but, also, I'm guessing you might have planned these out. I don't know. But it just seemed

Stacy Bratcher [00:24:34]:
like I don't plan the I mean, yes. We I do a prep call, and we kind of develop an outline of where we're gonna go. But as a listener to shows, like, I I'm always frustrated where it feels like there's something that's happening, and then the the the person takes it off to another direction. Like, I wanna I wanna fully develop whatever the thought was.

Dave Jackson [00:24:55]:
Right. And that's where you do that. You're like, hold on. I wanna stop here and ask about this. And that's why I love that because it's so many times someone would be like, you know, and that's when I accidentally shot that guy. And and then they're like, great. What was your

Stacy Bratcher [00:25:09]:
about when you sold your car.

Dave Jackson [00:25:10]:
Yeah. And you're like, wait. You're not gonna ask about that last thing they just said. So your questions were, like I say, even if they were just off the top of your head, you did a good job of just they just weren't the typical kind of like, hey. You just posted 3,000 posts on, you know, LinkedIn. Like, why, basically? And what did you learn? Like, now that you've done I'm glad you did that. What did you learn from it? So I just thought they were great questions. So but, yeah, if you all you do is you put your feed in a pod page.

Dave Jackson [00:25:41]:
You you pick kind of a template and all the stuff you can change later. You pick some colors. And what it does is every time you put out an episode, it just automatically puts it out as, like, this little episode on your page. And then they do have an AI tool where you can go in and say, hey. Based on this particular episode, now write a blog post. So then you've got kind of your show notes with here's the links to everybody's stuff, and and then you can have it write a blog post if you want. So and it's I think it's $20 a month. It's nothing too crazy.

Dave Jackson [00:26:11]:
And, again, future Dave here. I did not work for PodPage when I said this. Hence, it's one of the reasons why I work for PodPage. I love that company.

Stacy Bratcher [00:26:20]:
So my main issues are I mean, I get I have steady listenership.

Dave Jackson [00:26:26]:
Mhmm.

Stacy Bratcher [00:26:26]:
I would say very steady. And when people reach out to me, they, like, love the show. I get a lot of positive feedback. I'm not seeing a ton of growth. And I wonder if I'm not promoting it enough or the bet my best episode, my most popular is one called, 7 things I did to become a general counsel. I'm wondering, am I not titling them right? Or

Dave Jackson [00:26:51]:
Actually, the thing I liked about your titles because I took a look at those, and I was just you know, so many people just do episode 6. And I'm like, yeah. That is not gonna get you any kind of link love. But you had really, like, how to let me I'm going back here in Apple. And you had really good titles that were very clear. And I think if somebody was looking for information on that topic, I think you would would show up. So like c suite series. So you're already right at the front.

Dave Jackson [00:27:18]:
You know, how to partner with chief human resources, own your own professional development with, Sapna and Red Bull. That's awesome.

Stacy Bratcher [00:27:27]:
Yeah. She's a general counsel of Red Bull. Yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:27:28]:
Yeah. Level up contracting in the legal department, level up ethics, leading teams in legal department. So everything I saw there, I wasn't going, oh, I wonder what that episode's about. You know, they were they were very clear on what they were, and you write a really good paragraph to kinda let people know. Because, really, if somebody clicks on that before they click play, they're probably gonna look at that little paragraph, and they're asking the question, do I need to listen to this? Is this gonna waste my time? The thing I would say is, a, on your website, have a page made like slash follow. You know? So and then on there, have Apple and Spotify and, you know, Amazon. Basically, if you get Apple and Spotify, you've got about 80% of

Stacy Bratcher [00:28:14]:
list So have a page on the a tab on the website for following? Yeah. Like like a like a you can click to follow?

Dave Jackson [00:28:22]:
Yeah. And the beauty of again, I should get well, I do earn commissions of if you use my affiliate link. But if you go to, like here, if I go to, podcastconsultant.com/follow, any kind of player that I put the link to, it just automatically makes a page. It also makes a page for voicemail if you wanna have questions come in. It's it's pretty handy. But the reason for that is that way because the last thing you want to say is find me wherever you find podcasts, because Yeah. Searching those apps is often really horrible, Where now you can just say, oh, just go to, you know, legalpod.com/follow. Or and and it's that way you're reinforcing your brand.

Dave Jackson [00:29:05]:
It's easy to share, and it's easy to remember.

Stacy Bratcher [00:29:08]:
Mhmm.

Dave Jackson [00:29:08]:
And that way, if, you know, you're talking to anybody. And right now, you just don't have an easy way to follow the show.

Stacy Bratcher [00:29:17]:
Yeah. It's terrible. Yeah. It's the worst. It's the worst.

Dave Jackson [00:29:20]:
Yeah. Because that's you just want it easy to to follow with a show and click and play. And

Stacy Bratcher [00:29:25]:
Okay. Well, that's that's good to know.

Dave Jackson [00:29:27]:
Your audio levels are great. Your I thought you sounded great. Like I said, there's, you know

Stacy Bratcher [00:29:31]:
People love my voice. I get so many people like, your sound so soothing Yeah. I think is interesting.

Dave Jackson [00:29:37]:
Yeah. You're very warm. So

Stacy Bratcher [00:29:39]:
They like that. So am I missing opportunities for to tell I mean, they're not really stories, but is there is because I you know, you talk about edutainment. Like, I don't know that this show is delivering that.

Dave Jackson [00:29:55]:
No. But you're you're definitely the for me, I love the fact that it's takeaway. Like, when I leave this because there are times when, you know, you listen to somebody tell their story, and they had this phenomenal father that did everything. And you're like, okay. So step 1, get adopted by Dan's dad. You know, it's like, how am I supposed to do with that? So here, you're like, here's, like, here's what we learned when she did this. Here's a way to, you know and you're you're being really obviously just honest. Like, look, I get bored with stuff.

Dave Jackson [00:30:29]:
How do you get pumped up to do another hotel contract? So I thought it was great. And that's probably why you're getting good feedback is because there for a while I forget. I think it it might have been Don Miller all about you need to tell your story. And people will identify with your story. And I'm like, okay. But not if it takes you 40 minutes to tell it. And there's a lot of details there that I don't really care that your daughter

Stacy Bratcher [00:30:55]:
You don't really care. No.

Dave Jackson [00:30:56]:
And it is you're introducing somebody to a stranger. And unless they have an amazing story,

Stacy Bratcher [00:31:05]:
it's It's hard. It's really not good. You really yes.

Dave Jackson [00:31:08]:
Yes. Yeah. I don't think you're, you know and what I do sometimes is I will ask those questions and then take them out of the recording. And then what you did, you you have her start off my fun fact. Because I will say, like, I just did one. I have my notes here from Jodi Crangle. She's been, doing voice over for 17 years. She had a she was doing audio back in 2002.

Dave Jackson [00:31:31]:
Well, I I weave this into either, a, does it deliver value to the audience? Or, b, can I just weave these fun little facts into the intro instead of taking 10 minutes to listen about, you know, the time she was in a canoe and the thing, and they're like, yeah, okay? Yeah. Yeah. So no. I think I think it'll help you stand out. I just So

Stacy Bratcher [00:31:52]:
you like it you like it then?

Dave Jackson [00:31:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm a little too far logically leaning. So and I'm a teacher. So when you give me things that I go, oh, that's that's something I can act on versus you know, and you kinda have to go, well, is my audience here to get inspired or to, you know, up their their game. You know? I'm trying It's a

Stacy Bratcher [00:32:15]:
mix it's a mix of both. Yeah. It's a mix

Dave Jackson [00:32:17]:
of both.

Stacy Bratcher [00:32:18]:
Like, I did one I recorded 1 Friday with a a guy who's he was general counsel of Fitbit when they went public.

Dave Jackson [00:32:25]:
Oh, man.

Stacy Bratcher [00:32:26]:
There was a lot of fun energy around that story, and so we talked about that a little bit. But and then he also had some concrete tips. But not everybody's gonna be that way. You know, most people's work is boring.

Dave Jackson [00:32:40]:
Yeah. Well, what I always do is I I listen to what question did I ask, and then I listen to how long did they actually start answering the question? Because we do this. We give them a lot of background so they can better answer the question. And depending on the question, a lot of times, I will cut that out. I'm like, my audience doesn't need to hear the background. And then, likewise, many of our guests will give us tons of background before they actually answer the question. And so I always try to cut out all the fluff Yeah. And and cut that out.

Dave Jackson [00:33:13]:
And then I listen to the answer and go, a, did they actually answer the question? Because sometimes you ask them

Stacy Bratcher [00:33:20]:
Sometimes they don't.

Dave Jackson [00:33:21]:
Yeah. They're like, well, that's, you know, and especially if you get into people who get interviewed a lot, you just pull their string and they're like, oh, well, back in the day when I like, oh, here we go again. So did they answer the question? And then does it deliver value to my audience? And if it's entertaining, okay. That's valuable. And but if it's you know, you ask them what's your favorite pizza, and they go purple, you're like, yeah. That's not helpful. Thanks. You answered the question, but you didn't.

Stacy Bratcher [00:33:46]:
Yeah. Alright. What about any other ways to promote it? Like

Dave Jackson [00:33:51]:
Are there any other shows like yours?

Stacy Bratcher [00:33:55]:
Most people I mean, there are some in house legal podcasts, but it and I was just on one recently. They're mostly career journey.

Dave Jackson [00:34:03]:
Yeah.

Stacy Bratcher [00:34:04]:
That's the main thing that people do. Or they're legal shows about, you know, like the supreme court term or, you know, some kind of recent legal news.

Dave Jackson [00:34:17]:
Yeah. Because the the different ways to kind of promote it, either a, be a guest on somebody else's show. And the advantage of that is you know, you have podcast listeners when you do that. Newsletter sometimes, if there's a newsletter about legal stuff that would fit your audience, you might see if you could advertise in there. But the the one 70% of podcasts are discovered via word-of-mouth. So that's like at the end when you're like, there's no, like, share this with a friend. And when you do when you do that, a lot of times we feel really weird when we start doing self promotion. And and you'll say, like, hey.

Dave Jackson [00:34:56]:
You know, like, if somebody, you know, maybe needs, like, the stuff, like, our website's root. Com, and you're like, oh, that's whereas if you go, hey, today we talked about such and such. We learned a lot of great you could even throw this into the Jerry Springer. We learned about this. We learned about that. And like, do you know somebody else who's really struggling with contracts right now? Could you do me a favor? Could Could you just share this with them? You know, go to the phone, click the little button in the upper right hand corner because they're gonna think you're awesome because you shared this great content because it's great because you're still here. And I get to grow my audience, or just send them to my website, you know. And then, again, that's where you throw the follow link and go to town.

Dave Jackson [00:35:32]:
And it's, on one hand, it sounds stupid, but on the other hand, a lot of YouTubers are still telling us to like, subscribe, and ring the bell. And I know what that button does. You don't have to tell me. So why are they doing it? Because you go, oh,

Stacy Bratcher [00:35:43]:
you know what? Well, the the call to action is probably my hardest thing because, you know, I feel like there's a few kind of shows. Right? They're like the people who are celebrities, and they get paid to do the show. They're people that are using it as a sales funnel. Right? And so they're promoting whatever their stuff is. And then there's hobbyists, I guess, kind of like me. I don't have I think if I had a coaching business or a training something or another, this would be a great way to promote it, but I don't. So

Dave Jackson [00:36:16]:
Yeah. And you're really the goal is to you know, you're just growing your network. So Yeah. I don't know if you would wanna throw in a, you know, would you like to be a guest on the show? Or if you know specifically who you're looking for, then maybe that's not a great thing because then you're gonna get a bunch of people who don't fit. Or, you know, do you know somebody who would make a good, you know how do you go about finding your guests?

Stacy Bratcher [00:36:40]:
First of all, I started with topics. So a lot of that prework was topics that I wanted to know about, and then I used my network to source those people. Then I went you know, I have a big LinkedIn network. I found people who are big voices in those areas. I've had 3 authors on who wrote books that I really liked and wanted to talk to them. That was pretty amazing. You know, that's you know, again, as you said, like, it's you're paid in other ways. Like, being able to to meet these people I'd never have an opportunity to meet has been really amazing.

Stacy Bratcher [00:37:15]:
Yeah. So

Dave Jackson [00:37:16]:
So in that way, your show is, you know, successful.

Stacy Bratcher [00:37:21]:
Right.

Dave Jackson [00:37:21]:
So that's the good news. You know, it's like congratulations. I always say when somebody says, well, I just wanna talk about Batman in the basement with my friends. I go, the minute you put out your first episode

Stacy Bratcher [00:37:31]:
Yeah. You've done it.

Dave Jackson [00:37:32]:
Congratulations. You are a successful podcast.

Stacy Bratcher [00:37:35]:
It is hard, though, as you know, even if you're not trying to get downloads, it's really hard not to use that as a metric.

Dave Jackson [00:37:42]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's we all it takes how long have you been doing the show?

Stacy Bratcher [00:37:47]:
Since November.

Dave Jackson [00:37:48]:
Yeah. So it'll take a couple years before like, I haven't checked my stats in about 3 months. I mean, I I kinda look at them when I'm uploading stuff, but, you know, the whole, like, where you check them every hour, you know, that's that's a hard habit to break.

Stacy Bratcher [00:38:04]:
Well, thank thank you. This has been really helpful. Thanks for taking the time to listen to the show, which I'm sure was not that germane to what you do, but I appreciate

Dave Jackson [00:38:13]:
That's actually it's funny you say that because there comes a time when you guys are really getting into a conversation. And when I have no idea what you're talking about, I'm like, oh, that's good content. Like, that's when you because because there's, like, jargon. Like, I was listening to a show about model trains, and I was like, I have no idea what they're talking about. But they were like, oh, and that thing with the thing, and you do the and I was like, this is this is content you can't get any place else. And so, and when you were like I said, that one time you brought in, like, a real life example, and I'm feeling this and that. I was like, this is exactly what somebody who's in your shoes is like, finally, a show for me.

Stacy Bratcher [00:38:49]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, again, thank you. I I, I love your shows.

Dave Jackson [00:38:55]:
Thank you.

Stacy Bratcher [00:38:56]:
So really appreciate being able to talk to you and taking you taking the time to look at it.

Dave Jackson [00:39:01]:
Yeah.

Stacy Bratcher [00:39:01]:
And these are really I got to tell you, the call to action and the wrap up are things I haven't mastered yet, and that that's those are really good suggestions.

Dave Jackson [00:39:10]:
Excellent. Awesome. Well, if you have any other questions, as always, let me know if I can help.

Stacy Bratcher [00:39:15]:
I will. Thank you so much, Dave.

Dave Jackson [00:39:16]:
We'll see you. Take care. Alright.

Stacy Bratcher [00:39:18]:
Bye bye.

Dave Jackson [00:39:20]:
So I'm so happy this exists because that is me talking before I worked at PodPage. So if anybody ever says, oh, you just say that because you work there. I can say, this is what I said before I work there. And one of the things that Stacy wants is to be seen as a thought leader. And so we talked after we hit stop, and she's doing a great job of growing her network, which was one of her goals. But I said, if you really wanna be seen as a thought leader, yes, you can do the Jerry Springer at the end, but you might wanna consider doing a solo show and maybe sharing a story where you learned a lesson in working in the law field. Because when you do a solo show, you grow your influence. And when you do interview shows, you grow your network.

Dave Jackson [00:40:11]:
And with that, I will also point out, if you haven't figured out already, this show is done when somebody signs up. And right now, we got an empty chair. No waiting. If you would like to sit in the hot seat, go out to podcasthotseat.com. Not only do you get some consulting with the money you pay, you also get a free month at The School of Podcasting. And now, not only do you get access to all the awesome courses that are there and the amazing podcast community, but you also get unlimited consulting for the rest of that month. So it's almost a 2fer. You get the hot seat and you get the school of podcasting for free.

Dave Jackson [00:40:56]:
This is not a gotcha. If you don't wanna continue your subscription, you don't have to. But check it out, podcast hot seat dot com because there's always room for improvement. I'm Dave Jackson. I help podcasters, and I would love to see what we could do together.